Andrew: It seems that unless folks have really been looking, you've sort of fallen off the radar since your last majorly distributed album, A Different Man.  Where have you been?

 Clay: Yeah, if someone's only perspective is ccm radio, then yes, they probably think I have disappeared.  But I haven't.  (I don't think) I just have not had any new releases on radio.  That's not my choice.  It's theirs.  And that's okay.  I totally understand they are always looking for the next big thing, and that ain't me.  You know, I'm just very thankful for the years that they played my music.  I'm serious.  They played my stuff a ton.  And the familiarity of those songs from the 90's, and me, still opens doors for me to go sing places.

Now me and my wife, Renee, speak (and I still sing) in settings all over the nation.  We share an honest story of God's grace in our marriage.  Our ministry is called HolyHomes.  Check out holyhomes.org.  Also, we've been to China twice over the past 3 years and brought back a child each time, bringing our child count now up to four.  Wow!  So, in a nutshell, that's what we've been up to.  Staying busy.  Trying to stay focused on Christ.  Very thankful, very blessed.

Now it seems to me that you were leading worship somewhere as well?  Are you still doing that?

Yes, for 3 1/2 years I was the staff worship leader at TLC Church here in Memphis.   It was a good time for me, but I had to step down to devote myself better to our ministry HolyHomes.  I love leading worship and still do it at our events on the road.  Will I ever be on staff at a church again doing it?  Who knows?  I could see myself stepping into that role if the situation was right.  It would just have to be a scenario where I still led this ministry HolyHomes and, at the same time, had a lot of support leading the music at the church.  Any interested churches feel free to give me a buzz.

That's cool.  Was it a weird fit for you after the solo gig?  What I'm saying is that, whether it's CCM or mainstream, the solo gig is very much about you while the role of the worship leader is to deflect everything to Him.  How'd you make that adjustment?

That adjustment just went along perfectly with a recommitment to Christ that I was experiencing starting in 1998.  Getting closer to Him made it easy to take off my "entertainer" hat and put on one of more of a servant.

I know its a little bit of old hat by now but can you share a little bit about that
recommitment with us?  Didn't you have some vocal issues around then too?

This could be a very long answer, because it was a monumental season of my life.  I actually wrote a book all about it.  (It's called) I Surrender All: Rebuilding a Marriage Broken by Pornography.  The short version is this: It happened in 1998.  I lost a portion of my singing voice.  Which caused me to freak out and cry out to God.  He let me know that my voice problem was His way of getting me back to Him.  Since then I have been sharing this personal testimony nationwide, with great response.  Renee joins me in many settings.  There's something about a couple standing up on a stage together saying, "Hey, we're not all that.  But God loves us so much."

Define "freak out" a bit more if you would.  Was it a place of having focused more on identifying yourself as what you could do as opposed to who you were in Him?

Freak out.  Spaz out.  Whatever.  I was reeling.  Losing my voice was, at the time, the worst thought imaginable.  God lovingly let me know that there could be much worse things than that; like maybe losing my marriage or my kids or my life.  It actually turned out the be the deepest and best season of my life.  It was like a honeymoon.  Everything was new and my relationship with Christ started to feel close like it never had before.  There was some serious forward motion and growth taking place.

So that sort of led into your leading worship for a season then and I'm assuming HolyHomes too.  Can you tell us a little bit more about the ministry of HolyHomes?  What's it all about?

HolyHomes encourages Christian homes to not allow Christ to be crowded out.  It happens all the time.  Christians go to church.  Appear perfect but, clearly, are not.  They go home and check out.  They watch whatever they want on TV.  Movies, Internet, with no filter whatsoever.  And the effects are real.  Families are drifting away from God, away from each other.  Divorce.

Me and Renee just share our story of how God got our attention in 1998 and restored our lives and marriage.  That's HolyHomes.  And by the way, we don't say our home is perfect.  Far from it.  But it's far more focused on Christ than before.  And we see those effects.  Great effects.

So along those lines, what sort of practical help or ideas do you help people who are struggling with those issues?

We just come in and offer a real reminder of this.  What we bring isn't rocket science.  It's Christianity 101.  Things like, be in the Bible everyday.  Speak of it and teach it to your kids.  They've got to see that it's everything to you.  Pray early and often.  And for anything at all.         

We harp on making wise entertainment choices as well because we know, firsthand, how easy it is to close your front door, sit on your couch, and take in whatever Hollywood offers, with no regard to whether God is pleased or not pleased.  And we know how this, over time, can warp your mind and allow you to justify all sorts of things in life.  And I know, firsthand, how this casual approach to TV and movies can regress to porn.

That's interesting.  Here at Infuze we're big into the discussion about art and faith and the intersection of the two, whether that be seeing God in a mainstream film or things along those lines.  In that discussion, it seems that there are a lot of gray areas.  How do you guys deal with that?

Here's something that's very normal for so many Christians.  A typical Sunday.  A lady goes to church.  Hears about God and hears His word.  Sings songs of praise to Him.  Hangs out, fellowships with other believers.  A pure and solid experience.  Then she goes home and later that night watches her favorite show Desperate Housewives.

There's something wrong with this.  Hear me on this.  I'm not a legalist.  I own a TV, actually about six in our home.  I'm not suggesting that we hide under a blanket and throw our TV's out the window.  What I'm getting at is this: God cares a great deal about what fascinates His children.  What makes us laugh?  What makes us cry?  What turns us on?  What repulses us?  (And ultimately) it brings Him joy when He sees us reject sin, and yes, sinful programming, even if it's fictional.  At the same time, it must hurt Him when He sees us laughing at and allowing into our homes situations, on the screen, that applaud sin.

I realize this is sort of a clichéd response but let me play devil's advocate for a second if you'll allow.  So what do we watch then?  What do we listen to?  What are we to entertain ourselves with?

Philippians 4:8 comes to mind first.  "Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable - if anything is excellent or praiseworthy, think about such things."  Gotta think that rules out The Sopranos, which was my favorite show for a while, till I really thought about how it was taking me in.  Painfully, I had to say "bye-bye" to Tony and the crew.  Can't imagine that Desperate Housewives qualifies here either.

Now, I'm not going to make some list here of shows that are okay and shows that are not.  I'll just always point someone to that verse, or the "delight in the Lord" ones'.  As His children, we need to run everything by Him.  Our desire to please Him should be 24/7.   To answer the question, "So what do we watch then?  What do we listen to?  What are we to entertain ourselves with?"  Man, let me just tell you, God has created a big world out there, with so many possibilities.  And so many people and opportunities to serve.  Opportunities to entertain good.  We probably shouldn't act so backed into a corner and think that we have to take in everything Hollywood churns out.

I'll just throw out one more common objection I'm sure you're used to hearing and we'll move on.  What's your response to those who ask how we're to be relevant?  Perhaps they'd cite the Apostle Paul utilizing his knowledge of the Greek's philosophy and lore, which he used to introduce Christ.  How do we stay relevant to the culture then?  Also, and I think you touched on this a bit by sharing about "The Sopranos", do you include violence in this list as well?  More often than not, folks will argue against sexual porn while absorbing more than their fair share of violent content...

Being relevant to culture comes down to one thing: loving people.  Not trying to get them to join your church.  Not even trying to get them to "come over" to our side.  It's all about loving people.  This process has little or nothing to do with our knowledge of the latest hit TV shows, music groups or artists, films or books.  And there's nothing wrong with those things, per se, but our entertainment choices should reflect our core, Christ.

And about violence, it depends on how it's used in the movie or show.  That would also dictate how young a viewer should be.  I don't think any of us would object to movies like Passion of the Christ or even Braveheart though we may not want our five-year-old watching.

That's an interesting point that I think some might apply to sexual situations as well.  Also, the argument could be made that in order to produce honest art, art that truly reflects the world around us, must include the negative as well as the positive.  Thoughts on that?  It seems as though the motivation or intent is critical.    Would you agree or care to elaborate on that?  Also, regarding the violence, what draws the line there for you?  While certainly some films portray simply gratuitous violence, others utilize a form of "redemptive violence" which is also questioned by some.

I can't really formulate a line to go by with acceptable entertainment on one side and unacceptable entertainment on the other.  What I do know is this: the farther I am from God in my relationship with Him, the more I will allow in front of my eyes and ears and not think a thing about it.  I think back to the ‘90's.  Here were my favorite movies: Goodfellas, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction.  Amazing casts.  Well written.  Edgy.  Incredible movies.

Then came a moment in 1998 when I went through a serious recommitment to God.  After this I began to grow closer to God.  And I began to see that those movies held nothing for me but sin.  They entertained me, for sure.  But they didn't further any important area of my life.  In fact, they had negative effects on me.  So why did I ever allow them into my life in the first place?  One reason; I was very far from God.

I can respect that.  And while it's certainly an area where we could keep going for days and days, I'd like us to move on and talk music for a bit if that's okay.  Earlier you spoke of the Christian music industry and asserted that they're constantly in search of the "next big thing."  I wonder if you have any thoughts on the current state of the Christian music world.  How have you seen things change for the better?  The worse?

Well, the best thing to happen to the ccm scene over the past decade is the acceptance of worship music.  It used to be a niche format, at best.  Songwriters just didn't write as many songs that were straight focused on worshipping God.  Now, not only is that kind of song accepted, but those represent the biggest songs being played.  So, that's a great thing.  We, ccm, are no longer in the mode of churning out "God/Girlfriend" songs.

Yet, there are some that would argue just the opposite, that the proliferation of worship music, while good on some points, has also created a marketing strategy versus ministry focus.  If you look back over the past several years, you'll see worship albums from groups all across the board.  Does the quantity available taint the quality?

Yes, I'm sure it's watered down the quality to a certain extent.  And I'm sure some artists have done worship CDs just because it's selling well.  I guarantee you that if polka started to sell big, the most unsuspecting non-polka artists would record a polka project.  Says a lot about artistic integrity, huh?

As far as marketing versus ministry, that is something that weighs, or should weigh, on every person in ministry.  We think about it, or should, over our whole life's work.  We don't want to stand before God one day and have Him to ask, "So, who were you promoting? You or me?"  I pray all the time, "Lord, keep this work pure."

So do you have any desire to return to the ccm industry like before?  If so, how might you approach things differently now?

I'd return tomorrow, in terms of releasing new music and hearing it on the radio.  I still feel like I have much, and even more now, to offer artistically and spiritually.  This time around though, I would pray and  hope to bring it from an "older and wiser" slant.  But whether I'm ever back on the charts or not, it is clear that God wants me out there, on the road, sharing with people nationwide.  Musically and also speaking with my wife, Renee.  I am called to sing and speak of Christ.  That calling has nothing to do with whether I'm on the charts and winning Dove Awards like I used to.  It's a life calling.

Without being too forward, are there any opportunities coming your way as of late that will allow us to hear more from you in terms of new music and the like?  I also think it's interesting that you spoke of the "older and wiser" side of things.  Does mentoring new artists ever seem like something you'd be into?

I hope to be putting a new CD together this year.  Yes, I am always willing to mentor young artists.  They really need to be grounded in God's word and with a realistic view of doing music long term.  I try to talk with up-and-coming artists whenever I get a chance.

Very cool.  Are you doing it independently or...?  Also, while it may be a redundant question, what are three key points of advice you'd give to the up and coming artist over and above what you've shared...?

Unless something drops from the sky - which could happen, who knows? - my CD will be an independent release.

As for three things I would tell young artists?  One, in a word: serve.  In every situation God puts you in, serve.  Make that your mode of operation.  When you walk into a church or other venue to play your music, instead of wondering, "What can this place and these people do for me, ask, "How can I serve here in these few short hours I'll be here."  That attitude will carry you far.  Otherwise, you won't be in this game long.

Two, love the people you are working with and the ones who work for you and the ones that listen to your music.  Paul, of Tarsus and McCartney, talked about this.  You can have all the talent in the world.  But without love, it really is meaningless.

And three, be accountable.  Be real.  Don't have different faces.  Stay consistent and focused on Christ.

www.claycrosse.com
www.holyhomes.org

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